I wanted to talk about a Hulk situation in my most recent tournament. However, I found this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiDMfwPMS4Y&t=7s) and found I am participating in this conversation consistently as an Asgard Type 4 attrition list carrier. As I talked at my screen throughout the video, I put some of it down into writing.
Today I go through the points in the above video and offer
my perspective as an avid Thor, Hero of Midgard player, as well as my thoughts
on how others might counter my Thor gameplay.
Odinson’s Ire
A seven dice Energy builder attack with Range three, and two triggering
effects. Each Wild result in the roll may damage a different enemy character,
one damage, within Range three of the target. A Wild and Hit result allows a
Small Push in any direction.
The proposed adjustment is the removal of the Push trigger.
This reduces Thor’s effect on the board state of his opponent. However, the
trigger is more of a gift than a certainty. In my games, the only thing I Push
is Size four enemies I am hunting or dueling. Likewise, against smaller targets,
I’m usually targeting them because of their current position. They are already
within Range three of one or more allies, and I am hunting for Wild triggers to
spark damage. Not even triggering the Push on the last attack because I am
hoping for a double turn of attacks on the same target once they are Injured
and attackable again.
I Would Have Words With The
The video doesn’t properly address I Would Have Words With The.
Proposed Counter
Be Range four away. This is the best position to be in if this attack is what
you are avoiding. This position requires a Move action, self-Throw, or ally reposition,
which is all expensive and inefficient for your opponent. After that, there is
little hope, other than that all of Thor’s other abilities are more useful. Until
everyone gets better at negating the usefulness of Have At The, his spender isn’t
as viable as it might seem. In fact, this is the ability that I believe could
be the target of a nerf, by increasing its power cost to five. I believe the
community will get better at dealing with Thor as we all did for Hulk, Cosmic
Ghost Rider, Apocalypse, and others. At which point I believe this ten-dice
spender with Place and Throw is cheap.
Have At The
A self-Throw of Size four and Medium distance for three Power.
The proposed adjustment is to reduce Thor’s size to Two.
It seems to be that self-Throws cost equal to the size of the characters.
Therefore, if this is the rebalanced, it is self-evident that the cost of the
ability would also decrease. Making it cheaper and more efficient as movement
than it is already. Not to mention available Turn one.
One of the constant thoughts while running Thor is whether he is in the correct
position or not. Reducing the cost of his reposition superpower will reduce the
chances of mistakes made by the user. If the cost is not reduced, it becomes an
inefficient ability and the last anyone will use. Instead, using I Would Have
Words With The to reposition and cut more damage into the opponent. A Place
also being more efficient than a Throw will allow greater access to throwable Terrain.
Reduce the distance to Short.
This reduces the effectiveness of the superpower as a repositioning tool. Truthfully,
I frequently use Have at The as a bump into opponents at Range one when I’ve
run out of Actions and didn’t finish a target. Because of this common habit the
proposed change seems ineffectual.
Proposed Counter;
Terrain will always stop characters being thrown. The scenario in which you
have your character on top of a terrain piece and Thor, with six Power, first
throws it into you and then throws himself is valid. However, the tournaments I
have been participating in are keen to include barely Size one terrain pieces
like garbage cans and barricades throughout the board. All terrain negates the
range and angle of collisions from Have At The or Poune or other self-Throw to
come. The Thor player sees the board from the perspective of Where-Thor-Can-Go
and Where-Thor-Cannot-Go. As the opposing player, you must adopt a similar
perspective or be rendered ignorant. We place our models with the trigger Range
of abilities frequently. This should be no different. The argument against may
be that the Thor player could just Place off his spender or Move action. I say
that if you can force them into decisions, then you can predict their decision,
and that is the opposite of ignorance.
The Power of Thor
A Terrain within Range two, Medium distance Throw superpower for three Power.
Proposed Counter;
I have no idea other than other Terrain as cover. If anyone can show me how to
avoid Terrain throwers from throwing terrain in my face, please tell me.
Though, it makes me comfortable in some ways that there are sacred things with
the game. This being an example. Characters who Throw Terrain will hit you with
said Terrain unless you hit them first.
I Say The Nay Villian
A reactive superpower to being the target of an attack for three Power. Where
you roll seven dice, dealing damage to your attacker for each Crit and Wild
result in the roll.
Proposed Complications
The issue is put forward that this ability dissuades the aggregation of small
hit point models. Which I agree with. That is an active thought when diving
into certain positions. However, don’t forget the relevance of cost and
effectiveness. Thor cannot generate enough power by himself to fuel I Say The
Nay Villian into every enemy character and then operate his Throws. It often
comes down to one or the other. If I spend every enemy turn triggering, I Say
The Nay Villian, I likely start his activation with zero Power.
The comment about Grunts in general not being able to go into Thor is a little
exaggerated. If I were fighting Thor with any Grunt character with Range four
attacks. They would be on Thor duty the whole game, because it has a Range
limit of three and he has no reactive movement. I Say The Nay Villian is a
Power drain for Thor and do not let him make you think differently.
Proposed Counter
A list of mantras; Remember, I Say The Nay Villian is a once per turn ability. Remember,
Thor must be Range three from the target. Remember, it is three Power to use.
Remember, Thor cannot be dazed or KO’d and use the ability. Remember, it will
average two to three damage, which is ineffectual and a power gain for Thor’s
opponent on their turn. Remember, it will average two to three damage, if I
only have one to two Stamina left, DO NOT ATTACK THOR. I have killed many
models with three to one stamina remaining because I defended myself and
already had three Power on Thor. Just choose another character with four or
more Stamina left. Remember, a good Thor player may be using your damage into
him to fund his Activation. Attacking an un-activated Thor may prove to cause
less I Say The Nay Villian triggers.
Thor is not meta defining nor the only effective six threat
splash character. He doesn’t have any Tactic Cards that aren’t affiliated or
dependent on an additional character. He is dice dependent, and the only direct
damage he is capable of is the Wild trigger on Odinson’s Ire. Everyone is
splashing him because no one knows what to do about him. Like most six threats
before him, he is scary and difficult to understand. His weaknesses are not
simple and on his card. They are in his player and board state. Often my
terrible Thor games are bad dice, or bad positioning/terrain. I spent an entire
game with Thor behind a Size five piece of Terrain being displaced, because I
refused to move him past it with a Move action. Trying instead to throw myself
back into a fight I kept being pushed back from. Doing less than two damage
with two Odinson’s Ire attacks in a turn is the worst thing Thor can do on his
turn. It is the only place where he gains power outside his Stamina pool and
without three or more power, he only has one option on his card.
The community has strategies for the other six Threat models. Ignore and
endure, displace, or focus and destroy. Thor is no different. Hulk, Thanos,
Cosmic Ghost Rider, Apocalypse. Most of the six Threat library are abusive,
Power efficient, and extremely tactical on the table. Additionally, it may not
be Thor’s abilities and attacks that are his strongest asset, but his Stamina.
He and Thanos have the highest health of six threats that are not a hulk or a
gimmick. She and He-Hulk are both 20 health and cannot daze. Hulkbuster is 13
and 5 Stamina for 18, always Healthy, but Iron Man (Hulkbuster) is
significantly limited by comparison to his outer shell. Thor is 9 and 8, and
Thanos is 8 and 9. The current bemusement toward Thor seems familiar to the
long-standing commentary on Thanos. The difference being that they have an
opposite board presence and power set. Sharing only a maximum Stamina total.
Regardless, I hope that Thor continues to scrap and annoy the community long
enough that both Dracula and a possible six Threat Black Bolt fly under the
radar for as long as possible.
My final advice is;
Embrace change. Learn a lot. Play well.
See you at the Table.
-Bedrig
